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You want to start discovering hip-hop, but don't have an clue where to start?
29 Aug 2008, 13:38
Well here's some help!
So i made this top 100 (for the year 2008) based on the opinions of 29 fok! users, who all sent in their personal top 20. So why not sharing it, it was a fuckload of work anyway. To give you an idea how votingprocess look like, the number 1.'s on the top 20's were worth 20 points and their number 20's 1 point. you do the math.
*further notes; nieuw and nuevo mean -> new but i'm to lazy to change them into english words, and it makes the list looks like utter crap*
§ Position in the top 100 2008
§ Positie in the top 100 2005
§ number of points
§ Number of lists where the album appeared in
§ Artist + album (year)
001. | 004. | 287 | 18 | Nas – Illmatic (1994)
002. | 003. | 242 | 17 | Wu-Tang Clan – Enter the Wu-Tung (36 Chambers) (1993)
003. | 009. | 181 | 12 | A Tribe Called Quest – The Low End Theory (1991)
004. | 007. | 165 | 10 | Ultramagnetic MC’s – Critical Breakdown (1988)
005. | 010. | 151 | 10 | Notorious B.I.G. – Ready to Die (1994)
006. | 013. | 130 | 10 | Snoop Dogg – Doggystyle (1993)
007. | 002. | 114 | 10 | Eric B. & Rakim – Paid In Full (1987)
008. | 001. | 111 | 08 | Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions To Hold Us Back (1988)
009. | 005. | 103 | 07 | A Tribe Called Quest – Midnight Marauders (1993) – 103
010. | 030. | 102 | 08 | Pete Rock & C.L Smooth – Mecca And The Soul Brother (1992)
011. |nuevo| 083 | 06 | Jeru the Damaja – The Sun Rises in the East (1994)
012. | 011. | 083 | 06 | Dr. Dre – The Chronic (1992)
013. | 041. | 080 |07 | The Pharcyde – Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde (1992)
014. | 012. | 078 |10 | Mobb Deep – The Infamous (1995)
015. | 033. | 077 |08 | Big Daddy Kane – Long Live The Kane (1988)
016. |nieuw| 066 | 05 | Immortal Technique – Revolutionary Vol. 2 (2003)
017. | 027. | 061 | 05 | Black Star – Are Black Star (1998)
018. | 017. | 058 | 05 | Cypress Hill – Black Sunday (1993)
019. | 025. | 052 | 04 | Big L – Lifestyles ov da Poor and Dangerous (1995)
020. | 008. | 057 | 05 | N.W.A – Straight Outta Compton (1988)
021. | 053. | 054 | 03 | Organized Konfusion - Organized Konfusion (1991)
022. | 014. | 053 | 05 | The Roots – Do You Want More??!!??! (1995)
023. |nieuw| 051 | 03 | J.V.C. Force – Doin Damage (1988)
024. |nieuw| 051 | 05 | Beastie Boys – Ill Communication (1994)
025. | 019. | 049 | 04 | Organized Konfusion – Stress: the Extinction Agenda (1994)
026. | 063. | 048 | 05 | KRS-One – Return of the Boom Rap (1993)
027. | 062. | 048 | 05 | Dr. Octagon – Dr. Octagonecologyst (1996)
028. | 006. | 047 | 06 | De La Soul – 3 Feet High and Rising (1989)
029. | 043. | 047 | 04 | Dr. Dre – 2001 (1999)
030. | 022. | 045 | 05 | Madvillain – Madvillainy (2004)
031. | 015. | 042 | 03 | Mos Def – Black on Both Sides (1999)
032. | 094. | 039 | 03 | Lord Finesse & DJ Mike Smooth – Funky Technician (1989)
033. |nieuw| 039 | 04 | Lords of the Underground – Here Come the Lords (1993)
034. |nieuw| 039 | 03 | Typhoon – Tussen Licht en Lucht (2007)
035. |nieuw| 038 | 03 | Ghostface – Supreme Clientele (2000)
036. | 024. | 036 | 02 | GZA/Genius – Liquid Swords (1995)
037. | 016. | 036 | 04 | Jay-Z – Reasonable Doubt (1996)
038. |nieuw| 035 | 03 | Opgezwolle – Eigen Wereld (2006)
039. |nieuw| 034 | 03 | Stetsasonic – In Full Gear (1988)
040. |nieuw| 032 | 03 | Black Sheep – A Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing (1991)
041. |nieuw| 032 | 03 | Raekwon – Only Built 4 Cuban Linx (1995)
042. | 051. | 031 |03 | Beastie Boys – Licensed to Ill (1986)
043. |nieuw| 031 |02 | OutKast – Aquemini (1998)
044. | 049. | 031 |02 | Smif-N-Wessun – Dah Shinin (1995)
045. |nieuw| 030 | 03 | Showbiz & A.G. – Runaway Slave (1992)
046. | 038. | 030 | 03 | Slick Rick – The Great Adventures of Slick Rick (1988)
047. | 054. | 029 | 04 | Boogie Down Productions – Criminal Minded (1987)
048. |nieuw| 029 | 03 | Pete Philly & Perquisite – Mindstate (2005)
049. |nieuw| 029 | 03 | Gang Starr- Moment of Truth (1998)
050. | 031. | 029 | 04 | Eminem – Marshall Mathers LP (2000)
051. | 075. | 028 | 02 | Paris – The Devil Made me Do It (1990)
052. |nieuw| 027 | 04 | Eminem – The Slim Shady LP (1999)
053. |nieuw| 027 | 02 | Cypress Hill – Ill = Temples of Boom (1995)
054. |nieuw| 027 | 02 | Madlib – Shades of Blue (2003)
055. | 050. | 026 | 04 | Quasimoto – The Unseen (2000)
056. |nieuw| 025 | 02 | J-Zone – Pimps Don’t Pay Taxes (2002)
057. | 078. | 025 | 02 | Jay-Z – The Blueprint (2001)
058. | 061. | 025 | 03 | MF DOOM as Viktor Vaughn – Vaudeville Villain (2003)
059. | 020. | 025 | 03 | Beastie Boys – Paul’s Boutique (1989)
060. |nieuw| 024 | 02 | KRS-One – KRS-One (1995)
061. |nieuw| 024 | 02 | Del tha Funkee Homosapien – I Wish My Brother George Was Here (1991)
062. |nieuw| 023 | 02 | Schoolly D – Schoolly D (1986)
063. |nieuw| 022 | 02 | Public Enemy – Fear of a Black Planet (1990)
064. | 098. | 022 | 03 | Black Moon – Enta Da Stage (1993)
065. | 023. | 021 | 03 | Cypress Hill – Cypress Hill (1991)
066. | 048. | 021 | 02 | Gang Starr – Daily Operation (1992)
067. | 101. | 020 | 04 | Souls of Mischief - 93 ‘Til Infinity (1993)
068. | 018. | 020 | 03 | 2Pac – All Eyez On me (1996)
069. |nieuw| 020 | 02 | Redman – Whut? Thee Album (1992)
070. | 072. | 020 | 01 | Tuff Crew – Back To The Wreckshop (1989)
071. |nieuw| 020 | 01 | Pete Rock – Petestrumentals (2001)
072. |nieuw| 020 | 01 | Ugly Duckling – Bang For the Buck (2006)
073. |nieuw| 020 | 01 | DuvelDuvel – Puur Kultuur (2007)
074. |nieuw| 020 | 01 | Pharoahe Monch – Internal Affairs (1999)
075. |nieuw| 019 | 01 | Dälek – Absence (2005)
076. | 045. | 019 | 01 | Opgezwolle – Spuugdingen op de Mic (2001)
077. | 087. | 019 | 02 | Jurassic 5 – Quality Control (2000)
078. |nieuw| 019 | 01 | Tha Alkaholiks – likwidation (1997)
079. |nieuw| 019 | 01 | Big L – The Big Picture (2000)
080. |nieuw| 019 | 01 | Blockhead – Music by Cavelight (2004)
081. | 088. | 019 | 01 | Roots Manuva – Run Come Save Me (2001)
082. |nieuw| 019 | 01 | Common – Resurrection (1994)
083. |nieuw| 019 | 01 | Clipse – Hell Hath no Fury (2006)
084. | 029. | 019 | 01 | Opgezwolle - Vloeistof / Brandstof (2003)
085. | 060. | 018 | 03 | Digable Planets – Reachin’ (A new Refutation of Time and Space) (1993)
086. |nieuw| 018 | 01 | Mantronix – Musical Madness (1989)
087. |nieuw| 018 | 02 | Obie Trice – Cheers (2003)
088. | 037. | 018 | 01 | Stereo MC's – Connected (1992)
089. | 056. | 018 | 01 | The Roots – The Tipping Point (2004)
090. |nieuw| 018 | 01 | Kubus – Buitenwesten (2005)
091. | 076. | 018 | 01 | DJ Shadow – Endtroducing... (1996)
092. |nieuw| 018 | 01 | T-K.A.S.H – Turf War Syndrome (2006)
093. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | RJD2 – Deadringer (2002)
094. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Opgeduveld – Opgeduveld (2002)
095. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Stezo – Bring the Niose (1989)
096. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Mac Mall – Illegal Business (1993)
097. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Eminem – The Eminem Show (2002)
098. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Blahzay Blahzay – Blah Blah Blah (1996)
099. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Kool Keith – Black Elvis/Lost in Space (1999)
100. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Ghostface – Ironman (1996)
101. | 034. | 017 | 02 | Redman – Muddy Waters (1996)
102. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | IAM – L’Ecole du Micro D’argent (1997)
103. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Killah Priest – Heavy Mental (1998)
104. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Pete Rock & C.L Smooth – The Main Ingredient (1994)
This should get you started, have fun with it
If you can think of some more memorable albums; you're invited to throw them in the comments.
Update :
some more recommendables coming from the comments:
Various Artists - Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai - The Album (2000)
Sage Francis - Personal Journals (2002)
Boogie Down Productions - Ghetto Music: The Blueprint of Hip Hop (1989)
So i made this top 100 (for the year 2008) based on the opinions of 29 fok! users, who all sent in their personal top 20. So why not sharing it, it was a fuckload of work anyway. To give you an idea how votingprocess look like, the number 1.'s on the top 20's were worth 20 points and their number 20's 1 point. you do the math.
*further notes; nieuw and nuevo mean -> new but i'm to lazy to change them into english words, and it makes the list looks like utter crap*
§ Position in the top 100 2008
§ Positie in the top 100 2005
§ number of points
§ Number of lists where the album appeared in
§ Artist + album (year)
001. | 004. | 287 | 18 | Nas – Illmatic (1994)
002. | 003. | 242 | 17 | Wu-Tang Clan – Enter the Wu-Tung (36 Chambers) (1993)
003. | 009. | 181 | 12 | A Tribe Called Quest – The Low End Theory (1991)
004. | 007. | 165 | 10 | Ultramagnetic MC’s – Critical Breakdown (1988)
005. | 010. | 151 | 10 | Notorious B.I.G. – Ready to Die (1994)
006. | 013. | 130 | 10 | Snoop Dogg – Doggystyle (1993)
007. | 002. | 114 | 10 | Eric B. & Rakim – Paid In Full (1987)
008. | 001. | 111 | 08 | Public Enemy - It Takes a Nation of Millions To Hold Us Back (1988)
009. | 005. | 103 | 07 | A Tribe Called Quest – Midnight Marauders (1993) – 103
010. | 030. | 102 | 08 | Pete Rock & C.L Smooth – Mecca And The Soul Brother (1992)
011. |nuevo| 083 | 06 | Jeru the Damaja – The Sun Rises in the East (1994)
012. | 011. | 083 | 06 | Dr. Dre – The Chronic (1992)
013. | 041. | 080 |07 | The Pharcyde – Bizarre Ride II The Pharcyde (1992)
014. | 012. | 078 |10 | Mobb Deep – The Infamous (1995)
015. | 033. | 077 |08 | Big Daddy Kane – Long Live The Kane (1988)
016. |nieuw| 066 | 05 | Immortal Technique – Revolutionary Vol. 2 (2003)
017. | 027. | 061 | 05 | Black Star – Are Black Star (1998)
018. | 017. | 058 | 05 | Cypress Hill – Black Sunday (1993)
019. | 025. | 052 | 04 | Big L – Lifestyles ov da Poor and Dangerous (1995)
020. | 008. | 057 | 05 | N.W.A – Straight Outta Compton (1988)
021. | 053. | 054 | 03 | Organized Konfusion - Organized Konfusion (1991)
022. | 014. | 053 | 05 | The Roots – Do You Want More??!!??! (1995)
023. |nieuw| 051 | 03 | J.V.C. Force – Doin Damage (1988)
024. |nieuw| 051 | 05 | Beastie Boys – Ill Communication (1994)
025. | 019. | 049 | 04 | Organized Konfusion – Stress: the Extinction Agenda (1994)
026. | 063. | 048 | 05 | KRS-One – Return of the Boom Rap (1993)
027. | 062. | 048 | 05 | Dr. Octagon – Dr. Octagonecologyst (1996)
028. | 006. | 047 | 06 | De La Soul – 3 Feet High and Rising (1989)
029. | 043. | 047 | 04 | Dr. Dre – 2001 (1999)
030. | 022. | 045 | 05 | Madvillain – Madvillainy (2004)
031. | 015. | 042 | 03 | Mos Def – Black on Both Sides (1999)
032. | 094. | 039 | 03 | Lord Finesse & DJ Mike Smooth – Funky Technician (1989)
033. |nieuw| 039 | 04 | Lords of the Underground – Here Come the Lords (1993)
034. |nieuw| 039 | 03 | Typhoon – Tussen Licht en Lucht (2007)
035. |nieuw| 038 | 03 | Ghostface – Supreme Clientele (2000)
036. | 024. | 036 | 02 | GZA/Genius – Liquid Swords (1995)
037. | 016. | 036 | 04 | Jay-Z – Reasonable Doubt (1996)
038. |nieuw| 035 | 03 | Opgezwolle – Eigen Wereld (2006)
039. |nieuw| 034 | 03 | Stetsasonic – In Full Gear (1988)
040. |nieuw| 032 | 03 | Black Sheep – A Wolf in Sheep’s Clothing (1991)
041. |nieuw| 032 | 03 | Raekwon – Only Built 4 Cuban Linx (1995)
042. | 051. | 031 |03 | Beastie Boys – Licensed to Ill (1986)
043. |nieuw| 031 |02 | OutKast – Aquemini (1998)
044. | 049. | 031 |02 | Smif-N-Wessun – Dah Shinin (1995)
045. |nieuw| 030 | 03 | Showbiz & A.G. – Runaway Slave (1992)
046. | 038. | 030 | 03 | Slick Rick – The Great Adventures of Slick Rick (1988)
047. | 054. | 029 | 04 | Boogie Down Productions – Criminal Minded (1987)
048. |nieuw| 029 | 03 | Pete Philly & Perquisite – Mindstate (2005)
049. |nieuw| 029 | 03 | Gang Starr- Moment of Truth (1998)
050. | 031. | 029 | 04 | Eminem – Marshall Mathers LP (2000)
051. | 075. | 028 | 02 | Paris – The Devil Made me Do It (1990)
052. |nieuw| 027 | 04 | Eminem – The Slim Shady LP (1999)
053. |nieuw| 027 | 02 | Cypress Hill – Ill = Temples of Boom (1995)
054. |nieuw| 027 | 02 | Madlib – Shades of Blue (2003)
055. | 050. | 026 | 04 | Quasimoto – The Unseen (2000)
056. |nieuw| 025 | 02 | J-Zone – Pimps Don’t Pay Taxes (2002)
057. | 078. | 025 | 02 | Jay-Z – The Blueprint (2001)
058. | 061. | 025 | 03 | MF DOOM as Viktor Vaughn – Vaudeville Villain (2003)
059. | 020. | 025 | 03 | Beastie Boys – Paul’s Boutique (1989)
060. |nieuw| 024 | 02 | KRS-One – KRS-One (1995)
061. |nieuw| 024 | 02 | Del tha Funkee Homosapien – I Wish My Brother George Was Here (1991)
062. |nieuw| 023 | 02 | Schoolly D – Schoolly D (1986)
063. |nieuw| 022 | 02 | Public Enemy – Fear of a Black Planet (1990)
064. | 098. | 022 | 03 | Black Moon – Enta Da Stage (1993)
065. | 023. | 021 | 03 | Cypress Hill – Cypress Hill (1991)
066. | 048. | 021 | 02 | Gang Starr – Daily Operation (1992)
067. | 101. | 020 | 04 | Souls of Mischief - 93 ‘Til Infinity (1993)
068. | 018. | 020 | 03 | 2Pac – All Eyez On me (1996)
069. |nieuw| 020 | 02 | Redman – Whut? Thee Album (1992)
070. | 072. | 020 | 01 | Tuff Crew – Back To The Wreckshop (1989)
071. |nieuw| 020 | 01 | Pete Rock – Petestrumentals (2001)
072. |nieuw| 020 | 01 | Ugly Duckling – Bang For the Buck (2006)
073. |nieuw| 020 | 01 | DuvelDuvel – Puur Kultuur (2007)
074. |nieuw| 020 | 01 | Pharoahe Monch – Internal Affairs (1999)
075. |nieuw| 019 | 01 | Dälek – Absence (2005)
076. | 045. | 019 | 01 | Opgezwolle – Spuugdingen op de Mic (2001)
077. | 087. | 019 | 02 | Jurassic 5 – Quality Control (2000)
078. |nieuw| 019 | 01 | Tha Alkaholiks – likwidation (1997)
079. |nieuw| 019 | 01 | Big L – The Big Picture (2000)
080. |nieuw| 019 | 01 | Blockhead – Music by Cavelight (2004)
081. | 088. | 019 | 01 | Roots Manuva – Run Come Save Me (2001)
082. |nieuw| 019 | 01 | Common – Resurrection (1994)
083. |nieuw| 019 | 01 | Clipse – Hell Hath no Fury (2006)
084. | 029. | 019 | 01 | Opgezwolle - Vloeistof / Brandstof (2003)
085. | 060. | 018 | 03 | Digable Planets – Reachin’ (A new Refutation of Time and Space) (1993)
086. |nieuw| 018 | 01 | Mantronix – Musical Madness (1989)
087. |nieuw| 018 | 02 | Obie Trice – Cheers (2003)
088. | 037. | 018 | 01 | Stereo MC's – Connected (1992)
089. | 056. | 018 | 01 | The Roots – The Tipping Point (2004)
090. |nieuw| 018 | 01 | Kubus – Buitenwesten (2005)
091. | 076. | 018 | 01 | DJ Shadow – Endtroducing... (1996)
092. |nieuw| 018 | 01 | T-K.A.S.H – Turf War Syndrome (2006)
093. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | RJD2 – Deadringer (2002)
094. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Opgeduveld – Opgeduveld (2002)
095. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Stezo – Bring the Niose (1989)
096. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Mac Mall – Illegal Business (1993)
097. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Eminem – The Eminem Show (2002)
098. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Blahzay Blahzay – Blah Blah Blah (1996)
099. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Kool Keith – Black Elvis/Lost in Space (1999)
100. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Ghostface – Ironman (1996)
101. | 034. | 017 | 02 | Redman – Muddy Waters (1996)
102. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | IAM – L’Ecole du Micro D’argent (1997)
103. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Killah Priest – Heavy Mental (1998)
104. |nieuw| 017 | 01 | Pete Rock & C.L Smooth – The Main Ingredient (1994)
This should get you started, have fun with it
If you can think of some more memorable albums; you're invited to throw them in the comments.
Update :
some more recommendables coming from the comments:
Various Artists - Ghost Dog: The Way of the Samurai - The Album (2000)
Sage Francis - Personal Journals (2002)
Boogie Down Productions - Ghetto Music: The Blueprint of Hip Hop (1989)
Accepted Submissions
The Orange Group, Those who should be studying, French Metal [Bis], my ups, my downs, my music, People that like to play pool, Musical Bad Advice Center, The True Metalhead Group, Have I Got News For You, People Whose Taste In Music Far Exceed Your Own, Vegetable Liberation Front, Orange, You Forgot Poland!, Iranian Underground Music, The Orchards of Rome, Bring Me The Concentration Camp, We Hate Metallica, The truly grim metal paradigm of deadly death and extreme frosty blackness., Daylight Dies, Say NO to the religious manipulation of children, Males Who Love Horror Movies, ZXZW, People who enjoy very long pieces of music with very long and peculiar names, who…, Cyanide and Happiness, smart shy open-minded punks are the best - too bad i dont know any, now thats a big envelope, From Grindcore to Lounge - Truly Extensive, Nothing wrong with hating an artist in their shoutbox., Yes, I have more than 30 gb of music., ChroniX Aggression, Coalition Against Hardcore Dancing, Experimental Hip-Hop, Atheism, Last.fm CSS Color Changer, I Still Buy CDs, Kincaide!Pending Submissions
Red Pyramid, Mainstream music can suck ones dick, Hey, I think you might like not getting anymore spam, Nevolution, Fuck The Black Dahlia Murder, IHaveTooMuchMusicButStillWantMoreAndIDontCareIfItKillsMyPC, Cockfight, Good Riddance To Heath Ledger, Learn the definition of Hardcore, kid!, Benighted, Anti-Slam Death and Deathcore, Hip-Hop van Nederlandse Bodem, In grind we crust, Milk Lovers, Post-Whatever, lolwut?, Your race ain't nothing to be proud of, dumbass!, Fuck dancing, I want to have a seizure, Unique Leader Records, Fucked Up Taste in Music, Finno-Ugric Music, I Have Hairy Legs And Am Proud Of It!, "low disk space", I hate to say it, but I'm a cunt, RockBox, People whose style of dress and personality doesn't match their music taste, Command and Conquer, Endangered languages, Fok!, too much good music to listen to - not enough time for all, Greasemonkeys, People who listen to music while they're sleeping, especially at times when they…Comments
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SCDM wrote:
Bay Rap is where it's at.
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TearsAmongAshes wrote:
Fuck yeah.
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ilsunalpha wrote:
i'm pretty surprised black star is so high. i loved that album but i didn't know it was regarded so highly in grand scheme of things. i'm also surprised 2pac is so low..since he is the best selling rapper of all time
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ilsunalpha wrote:
oh yeah, other that, fucking sick list
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_Mrozie_ wrote:
Well, nice list. I'm also very surprised that Black Star is so high. They're good, but not so good. Criminal Minded and Paid in Full should be in first five.
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dfr0 wrote:
is it just me.. or is there no masta ace on here.? i skimmed through it so i might have missed it.
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Sybje wrote:
nope, masta ace isn't on here.
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ricer719 wrote:
i live in the bay and imo hyphy has its own feel for dancin and just dance without givin a fuck but most of the shit listed on here is for really listening to the artistic flow and beats
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SCDM wrote:
no, fuck hyphy. I'm talkin' true bay area shit. pre-hyphy mac dre is boss. even some of HIS hyphy work is good.
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smooker wrote:
This list is great, I will definately check some of this. Happy to see RJD2 here. Deadringer is really what I am looking for in hip hop. BTW for starters Ghost Dog OST. is really good release. It includes Wu-Tang, North Star, Kool G Rap, Black Knights and so on.
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Aushie wrote:
wow, i like it. i'll check later all the albums from list i haven listened before.
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Bergatroll wrote:
Hey what about Sage Francis? His "personal journals" album is a masterpiece and appeals more to people who aren't typically hip-hop fans so it's a great you-want-to-start-discovering-hip-hop-but-don't-know-where-to-start-album. Glad to see Dälek on here anyway, "Absence" is fucking sick.
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deadrook wrote:
wow no KRS-one?
1989 Ghetto Music - The Blueprint of Hiphop yes 1989. He started most of the artist on your list. -
deadrook wrote:
1987 Criminal Minded(BDP) also
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Aardvarked wrote:
both krs & bdp are on there
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ilovecharts wrote:
Blahzay Blahzay
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end_y wrote:
thanks for that list, so many things to discover xD
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Jaap-t wrote:
Sick list, but wouldn't you agree that "Shades of blue" by Madlib is jazz rather than hip-hop. Also an amazing album tough.
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Dedalus wrote:
Madlib hi you okay etc.
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Dedalus wrote:
Okay that wasn't too obvious so I'll add VIOLENCE VIOLENCE
